Engineering Balance with Patty Weisensee

McKelvey’s Engineering the Future podcast continues new season focused on women in engineering with insight from mechanical engineer Patty Weisensee

Shawn Ballard 09.18.2024

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On this episode of Engineering the Future, Patty Weisensee, associate professor of mechanical engineering & materials science, discusses her journey from music to mechanical engineering and how she has maintained a healthy work-life balance along the way.

Patty Weisensee: So kind of this journey that I had from, say, late high school to now, I think what's important is to really reflect on values that we carry and to re-evaluate those.

Shawn Ballard: Hello, and welcome to Engineering the Future, a show from the McKelvey School of Engineering at Washington University in St. Louis. I'm Shawn Ballard, science writer, engineering enthusiast, and part-time podcast host. Today, I am here with Patty Weisensee, associate professor of mechanical engineering & materials science. Hi, Patty, and welcome.

PW: Hey, thank you for having me.

SB: So glad you're here, and I am dying to know, since you are not only an associate professor, but also a native of Germany. Germany is famously good at engineering. So did you always know that engineering was your pathway? Was this something that you knew you were going to be part of this legacy as a child, or was your pathway to mechanical engineering more complicated than that?

PW: Yeah, so the first memories of what I have of what I wanted to become when I was an adult was musical star. Until I realized that included dancing, and at that age I really was not into dancing at all. That has changed since, but back then definitely no. Then later on I really wanted to become a marine biologist because I loved dolphins, whales, later on sharks. Then I kind of, towards the end of high school, veered back towards music, so I ditched the musical, just thought music would be great. But I realized that making a living off that is challenging and also it tended to be a little bit too emotional for me.

Engineering seemed like the safer option where a lot is really more objective and that seemed to better fit. And I'm glad I chose that because it clearly worked out well. So it was not super linear from the get-go, but once I had decided that that would be my path, it has been fairly linear.

SB: Okay, amazing. And so you've talked about this journey, sort of thinking about different career options and finding your way into engineering. Once you knew that, what was your journey like, sort of from undergrad research in Munich, right, and then all the way here to St. Louis?

PW: Yeah, so I did undergrad research during my undergrad in Munich, and I didn't really enjoy it at all, actually.

SB: Oh, no!

PW: Yeah, it was computational work, so using a software to analyze different mechanical parts. And it was basically kind of a plug-and-play at that point. It wasn't really the math behind it, and I did not enjoy that.

Then, I had the opportunity to do an exchange program with UIUC, the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign. That's a partner school of TU Munich. And so I went and did a master's there, actually, as part of the exchange, and did research in materials science. It was experimental research, and I really enjoyed it. And my professor at that time, my adviser, he suggested that I should think about doing a PhD, because apparently he liked how I approached the research.

And when I went back to Germany, I did an internship at Siemens, and it was exactly in the field that I thought I wanted to go into, solar engineering. But something was missing. It felt like it was kind of repetitive, boring, to a certain extent. And so at that point, I realized, yeah, a PhD is probably the right way to go.

So then I was thinking about where to do my PhD. I decided not to do it in Germany because it's very hierarchical there. And I had experience here in the U.S. how it is to have kind of more peer-to-peer level conversations with your PhD adviser or with your research adviser. And I liked that. So I went back to Illinois, mechanical engineering department at that point for my PhD.

And then in my third year of PhD, WashU reached out to me saying that they had this opening in thermo-fluid sciences and that I should apply. So I did. I got an offer and here I am.

SB: Amazing. Okay, I love that. And as a fellow UIUC grad, I feel like the Alumni Association is going to be going crazy for this episode. So great for them. You're welcome.

So, can we dig in a little bit more to that? You mentioned the research style at UIUC and I presume here, right? You've brought that with you. Can you tell me more about that style? What is that style that characterizes your research?

PW: Sure. So to me, it's important that the students kind of have a little bit of autonomy, but still have guidance as well. So in Germany, they have a lot of autonomy, but that's primarily because in many cases, not in all, but in many, the professors aren't available. And so to me, it's important.

So I have weekly one-on-one meetings with all of my graduate students, so PhD and master’s students. And that’s where we talk about the research, but also other things, right? Other goals they have, struggles they might be going through, etc. So having these personal connections is to me very important, which also means that my group size is not humongous.

So that's just the way that I see it best fitting for me, and ideally, hopefully also for the students so that they can learn along the way and then become really towards the end of their PhD in the topic that they've chosen better than me, right? That they know more than I do at that point.

SB: Okay, yeah, I love that for them. And that seems like a very supportive way of running a lab, right? I imagine if we asked your grad students, they would say…

PW: Hopefully!

SB: I hope so, right! We can follow up with them.

So, okay, you've talked about your research style, and so let's get into the research in particular. What exactly is thermo-fluid dynamics, your sort of big umbrella field, and how did you get into that?

PW: So I'll start with the second one, how I got into it. So when I first started my mechanical engineering undergrad degree in Munich, I thought I was going, I thought I was interested in aerospace until I took the first two years of classes and realized that that might not be the best direction to go. And I really enjoyed heat transfer and thermodynamic classes. Fluids not so much, but heat transfer and thermo. So that's kind of when I realized that that might be a good direction to go.

Now, thermo-fluid sciences. So fluid means anything with a liquid or a gas. So how it moves in space, how it interacts with a surface, for example. Thermal means heat, so temperatures, basically, think different temperatures. And so thermo-fluid sciences looks at how different temperatures, for example, influence how a fluid moves or how it behaves. It includes phase change. So for example, condensation, where I go from a vapor into a liquid or the opposite direction, for example, when I boil water, that's a phase change process. And how I can, for example, modify surfaces to get the behavior that I want.

SB: Okay. And what does that mean? So you change a surface by changing, like, the temperature of it or the texture or something else?

PW: Texture, chemistry, temperature could be an option. For example, I've lately gone more into kind of applying thermo-fluid sciences to additive manufacturing, 3D printing. And there it's very important to be able to control cooling and solidification rates. So how fast does it turn from a liquid to a solid? Because that influences the properties of the material, the microstructure, which then influences the mechanical properties. So how easily does it break or not, for example. And so in that case, it is also a temperature control.

SB: Okay. And I imagine those kinds of mechanical properties, right, are very important when you're thinking about, you know, what you're doing with these fluids or these things that you're, you know, 3D printing.

PW: Yeah, you don't want the turbine blade to just start disintegrating during flight, for example.

SB: Right, exactly. So those aerospace applications kind of come back in. So you started thinking about aerospace early in your studies, and so now that's still something that you're working on, is that right?

PW: Not specifically, so not directly. My research is more on the fundamental side of things, so really understanding the physical processes. But people use 3D printing of metals, for example, for turbine blades. GE is a big example. They have really reduced the complexity of turbines by 3D printing them.

SB: Okay. Well, that's wonderful. Given all the news about bad things that can happen to airplanes, thank you so much for your service and making sure that that stuff doesn't just break apart. We love that!

You've accomplished a lot in a short time. I've written about, you know, various awards and of course your recent promotion to associate professor, all wonderful things. What accomplishments are you most proud of so far? What projects or, you know, whatever you're working on that you've done that you're like, that's the thing.

PW: Yeah, so it's kind of two parts. One, maybe sound a little bit cliche, but really my PhD students, especially the two that already graduated. In the five years between when they started in my lab and then when they graduated, the progress that they've made, not just in the research, like not just in the science, that they've really developed as a researcher and as human beings. So they really, by the time that they graduate, were very independent researchers with great thought processes. And that was really fun to watch, how they went through that.

The other aspect that I'm pretty proud of is that – you mentioned, right, accomplishments – that I was able to still have a very healthy, what I would call healthy work-life balance. So my approach is kind of roughly a 40-hour week because I realized that my brain just needs the breaks and I'm not efficient if I work significantly more than that. And yes, I'm efficient in the 40 hours that I work, but that has to be it, basically.

And so I do believe that there's a stigma in academia and in other jobs as well that if you work more, you get more done. Maybe I would have one or two more papers, but I might probably not be happier or healthier. So that is actually something that I'm proud of, that I was able to maintain that boundary that I set.

SB: Do you think that push that you sort of feel in academia and elsewhere, is that something that is sort of uniquely and maybe horribly American? Like are you bringing a very much needed European perspective to your students in this way?

PW: Yes and no. So Europe does tend to have more vacation time, for example. So somewhere between 20 and 30 days, work days, of vacation time is standard. Now in France, for example, I've heard, I haven't experienced, but I've heard that you can't be in the lab overnight, for example. So they force you to leave in the evening and have an evening.

That being said, people over there still work a lot, right? Maybe not in the lab, maybe they then work at home. But for me growing up, my dad, he's not in academia, but for him, weekends were family time and evenings were family time most of the time. So that's just how I grew up, and it seemed to work in my family, so I decided I'll keep that.

Whether it's American versus European, not necessarily, I think.

SB: Okay, I love that and I'm sure again your students appreciate that because that can be, what you say about burnout, right? I think more people are recognizing that now.

PW: And it's a problem, right? It's a societal problem.

SB: Yeah, it's huge. And so yeah, wherever you are, if you're working yourself too much, you're not going to be putting out amazing research. You're going to have planes falling apart on you.

PW: Yes, exactly.

SB: That's my through line here.

So in this work-life balance, which sounds amazing and we’ll be all following your example, I hope, you do some very exciting stuff. I have heard that you are an accomplished singer and dancer. So back to your early days thinking that music was the thing for you. You have continued that. What does that look like for you? What are you involved in in those areas?

PW: Yeah, so I started piano when I was seven, and I still have a piano at home. But I started singing in choirs at age 10. And I've basically been singing all the way through now with once in a while a short break, like COVID, obviously put a break on choirs. But when I went to get my PhD in Illinois, I joined two choirs there, sang in opera productions. Here I joined the WashU Choir.

So that is just an emotional outlet, I would say. And there's actually science or research about it that the joint breathing in actually syncs your heart rates and for some reason makes you happy.

SB: Okay, I love that.

PW: When your brains sync up or something like that. So to me, that is an emotional outlet.

And then you mentioned the dancing. Right, as I said at the beginning, as a kid and teenager, dancing was about the worst thing for me to do. Like, I hated it. But then in high school, towards the end of high school, I basically had to take dance lessons because we had a graduation ball. And you're expected to dance with your parent of the opposite gender. And so I didn't want to embarrass myself naturally. So I took dance lessons and realized I actually kind of enjoyed it. It was more structured. So I do ballroom dancing. So it's fairly structured, and I like that.

But then in undergrad, I didn't have time. Engineering is a major where you do have to study a lot. So I stayed with choir, but I didn't continue dancing.

But then in grad school, I wanted something that was a social outlet and also moving, get my exercise in. So I joined a ballroom dance club, a grad student dance club. And when I moved to St. Louis, I found also a dance studio and continued dancing. And now I help teach beginner classes.

SB: Oh, amazing. Okay, that's so great. Well, I may have to take one of your classes because I am a disaster. Pretty much all things that require coordination of any type.

PW: It's all about practice.

SB: Right? It sounds like. And if you could go from disliking it to now being an instructor, that is very hope-inspiring for me. There’s hope yet. Amazing.

So in and out of the lab, curiosity, collaboration, being part of a social unit where you're supporting each other, whether it's with your students or your groups, your choirs or your dance classes, those seem to be important themes for you. How do those values influence who you are and what you do as a researcher or otherwise?

PW: Yeah. So you mentioned curiosity. That's actually an important one. So I am kind of a child inside. So I love having fun, having the curiosity, really enjoying small things. If I see a bug, I go and look at it, which I feel like adults often lose this joy in small things. But that curiosity, obviously, in research is very important, along with perseverance.

But the communication and social aspect, so the interesting thing is that I'm actually pretty introverted, not necessarily a shy person, but an introverted person. But I do realize that communication is important. People can’t read your mind. And maybe the German in me tells me that being upfront is good, basically saying what you mean, and then acting upon what you're saying. Because if you want something of people, you have to tell them what you want. Right? We can’t read minds. So that has been an approach. For some people, especially Americans, I might be a little bit too direct.

SB: Oh! I have not observed that about you at all.

PW: But so far, so basically being direct, being very honest, dependable, those are very important traits for me that I think translate pretty well into research as well.

SB: Yeah, those seem like very important things. Like in a dance partner or research partner, right? If you can't trust them to not step on your toes or dump your beakers on the ground. Not everybody's perfect, but those seem like great things to have in all those areas. So I'm sure they're much appreciated by the folks doing that stuff with you.

Alright, so we've talked a lot about your approach to research and what fluid dynamics is. What do you wish more people knew about that field, either broadly or what you specifically do in fluids?

PW: So I think I'll answer more the broadly way. So when people on the street or when they meet me at dance class or something like that, and they ask me what I do for a living, and I tell them I'm a professor for mechanical engineering, their eyes widen and they're like, "Oh, you must be so smart."

SB: Which is true.

PW: Which is probably not false, yes, but a lot of people are smart, right? So smartness alone doesn't get you anywhere, really. Unless you're also dedicated and put in your work, or you have to have a growth mindset, being able and willing to work and improve on things.

I mean, I did not -- I wasn't born like this, right? I put in my work. Especially through a PhD, you have to have perseverance, be able to cope with things that don't go well, because that's just what research is. Most of the time, things don't go the way you want them to go. So it's really not about being smart necessarily. Certainly, academics have a certain IQ on average, but that's just not the only thing.

That being said, with -- I do believe that with hard work and dedication, even with a, let's say, lower IQ, you can still achieve a lot, but it needs then the work and dedication, which is needed anyway, right? So even if you have a higher IQ. So I think that is a common, maybe misconception that people have about academia, about engineers.

And then the other misconception that I see, especially towards women, is this idea that engineering is all about math, and naturally women aren't good at math, quote, unquote.

SB: I hate that one.

PW: I -- horrible. Yes. But so it's not necessarily about math. Yes, you have to pass a few math classes, but for example, I do experimental research. I hardly touch any equations. It's more about concepts, about theories, about actually hands-on things that you first have to build before you can even run experiments, then observing closely. So we do a lot with imaging, high-speed imaging. So it's really not all about math. So you can very much become a successful engineer, even if your math is a little bit rusty.

SB: Okay. Good news for people who have hated math classes. I feel like that's something that you read about, sort of the leaky pipeline, right? Especially with women in STEM, right? You know, I encountered this class, and either didn't have a good teacher, or didn't get the support I needed. And then all of a sudden that means –

PW: Or society telling you that you're not supposed to be good at it.

SB: Exactly. And then all of a sudden we're losing all these people who might be amazing, right? Who might be very excited and able and willing to put in that work.

PW: And a lot of engineering is not about the math. So I think that's an important concept to understand, to realize.

SB: Yeah. I love that. That is -- I wish people knew that about engineering as well. Thinking about these misconceptions where people might think that they're not suited for STEM. What advice do you have for people who are interested and maybe are not quite sure about that, right? Who are really evaluating their own pathway?

PW: So kind of this journey that I had from, say, late high school to now, I think what's important is to really reflect on values that we carry and to reevaluate those. Right? What I thought in high school is not the same what I thought about myself and what I want to do when I was in late college or now. So I think constantly checking in with oneself is important. And really not having society define what success means or what it means to have a fulfilling life. So for example, I do not have children. People might think that how can I have a fulfilling life if I don't have children, right? On the other hand, I have a lot of hobbies that make me very happy. So it really -- trying to find your own path and really defining success for yourself and reevaluating that. It takes time to dig deep in to find our core values and core interests and needs. But I think it's an important exercise to do that regularly.

SB: I love that. And I have one more for you if you're willing to tell us what you're listening to right now or what you're into right now. So, okay, for fun, in closing, Patty, what is your top media recommendation? Book, movie, TV show, podcast, whatever. What have you been enjoying lately?

PW: Yes, I'm not a TV or movie person. I have so many other hobbies that I basically don't have time. I watch soccer. That is the German in me, I guess.

SB: Are you a St. Louis City fan?

PW: Not really.

SB: Oh, no, Patty.

PW: Sorry. Yeah, sorry. I follow German soccer.

SB: Okay, that's fair in this case. I'll still be a little disappointed.

PW: So for me, classical music is always the right thing to listen to at basically any moment. A composer, for example, that I think is really underrated is Mendelssohn. He doesn't get a lot of attention, but I think he has phenomenal orchestral music and also choir music. To me, early music as well, so baroque period music. Also something that doesn't get that much attention, even though this summer, the opera theater of St. Louis actually had a baroque opera on their program, which I really appreciated. They're not very often played, so naturally I went and visited that.

Books, not big of a reader either. So to me, really, media is usually listening to music. Maybe reading some blogs about mindfulness, neuroplasticity is something I've been reading about, how to change habits, things like that.

SB: Do you have any tips for us from what you've read?

PW: Nothing concrete yet. I'm still working on that.

SB: Fair. Me too.

PW: I guess one thing is thinking more about gratitude on a daily basis, thinking about what we're grateful for really helps with seeing the positive sides of life.

SB: I love that. Do you keep a gratitude journal or something like that?

PW: I started with that, yes.

SB: Amazing. That seems bite-sized enough that even...

PW: That it’s doable.

SB: Yeah! Like anybody could do it.

PW: Small steps, small steps at a time.

SB: Wonderful. Thank you so much for coming to the show today.

PW: Yeah, my pleasure.

SB: You've given me a lot to think about, gratitude journaling and otherwise. So I hope that you'll enjoy some St. Louis City games in the future, but we won't wait on that. And in the meanwhile, again, thank you, and good luck with all of your future things and your research. I look forward to the next paper that comes out and you continuing to keep the airplanes not breaking apart in the sky.

PW: I’ll try my best. Thank you so much for having me.